Obama needs to unite the country on gun crime

[John Galt]

a government that does not allow its citizens unfettered access to protect themselves from threats, including the government itself and it's machines of war, but also from crazy people, etc, is not worthy of being a government

[exploited]

[Precocity]

[exploited]

[Ben Huh]

[spacemonkey]

The second was mostly for protection from tyranny, both foreign and domestic. It wasn't about personal protection from eachother. But today, that fits too.

[Precocity]

[exploited]

[Precocity]

[Medius]

It seems we need to have a little education here as there is a lot of misunderstanding of the constitution and natural rights.

First, the second amendment is not a grant of a right. The bill of rights in total was assumed to be inherent in the constitution, which is why it was initially rejected. Not because it wasn't believed these rights were important, but that the construct of the document was such, that only limited powers were granted in the first place to the federal government, and thus the items in the bill of rights, not being granted to the control of the federal government, would be inherently protected.

Second, with regards to natural rights, they are not positively enforced rights by nature. That is not the idea behind them. The idea is that there are certain things inherent to the nature of the governed that cannot be effective removed by legitimate government. These things will be reclaimed by the populace, most likely through revolution, and end tyrannical governance. People will speak out, they will take up arms, they will keep secrets from the government, they will not stand (long) for imprisonment without due process. A government that removes these rights is not legitimate as people will take these things when that government becomes unbearable.

So, the reason to recognize these natural rights is two-fold. One, to recognize that a legitimate government must stand by the consent of a people fully capable of removing it. Two, to protect the government from being necessarily thrown out when it just needs to be peacefully changed.

It isn't about god given rights, or some natural positive force that gives rights. It isn't about guns specifically, or printing presses, or cyber security. All people should be free to speak out against their government without fear of reprisal. All people should be free to defend themselves against the unjust force of others, including their government. All people should be secure in their person and in their property against unreasonable search and seizure. All people should be afforded all rights that they do not choose to vest in their government.