Political Crossfire Forums

Non is torn.

About have the cases that cross my desk stem from health related issues, either mental illness or addiction. I'd like it if we had health-care resources/facilities that my clients could take advantage of as opposed to jail or the department of corrections. To that end I think we need to maybe look into a sanitarium 2.0 program.

However I can see your fears about abuse. In Minnesota they had a contested hearing like a mini-trial prior to commitment and in Colorado (who's mental-health laws are a f**k) most people never get beyond the 72 hour hold.

Any system, even one with reasonable legal-safe guards, is going to be abused.

What concerns me most of all is the potential for unrelated incidents to be treated as one problem. For instance, let's say that there is a guy named Jimmy, and during college, he suffered a bout of depression. He takes advantage of the schools mental health program, visiting a psychiatrist for six months. After he graduates, the depression never comes back. He is happy, well-adjusted, etc.

Now lets say Jimmy makes an off-colour joke or remark that is wrongfully perceived as intent to do harm. The police or the court hears this, then looks over his student record. Now you have established a history of mental illness and a stated desire to do harm. Jimmy gets put into a mental institution. He loses his job. He loses his apartment. He is unable to pursue various careers that require medical disclosure.

All because of one comment and a totally normal bout with depression.

On the other hand, school massacres.

It is a very tough decision, but ultimately I think the law needs to come down on the side of civil liberty.

That's no where near enough to get Jimmy in a mental institution. It's actually pretty difficult to get someone involuntarily committed. The process needs to be made easier, so that loons like Lanza or Cho can get the help they need. In Florida we have the Baker Act and people like that would have been seen for at least 72 hours. God knows how many lives could have been saved if other states had similar legislation.

No rights should ever be removed without due process. Though I thought most states would only do a 24 hour hold and evaluation on just a "report", assuming the police deem it necessary.

The part that is broken is that, at least here in Texas, the funding sucks, so you only get a 24 hour hold and release after an actual attempted suicide in many cases, which is absurd.

The problem with this idea is that is a retarded knee jerk over reaction that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of having an appreciable effect because it's dumb. There is absolutely no reason to have a "shock team" of specialists that can suspend rights and detain people other than to introduce the concept of egregious rights violations to the public in a manner they might find acceptable if they don't really think about it much.

Violent outburst are anomalous, rare behavior. Would you recommend these types of over the top "security" precautions to prevent getting struck by lightning or drowned in a tub? Of course not.

Today's families are run more from the court room, rather then the living room.

The Baker Act, as far as I can tell, only requires the suspicion of mental illness and the suspicion of impending harm. There are no other criteria I could find. It allows up to a 72 hour holding period, after which a civil commitment trial occurs (which has most of the same evidentary standards as a regular trial).

I also found a site that says 2.5 million people are involuntarily committed every year in the US, and that the powers of doctors in these facilities far exceeds those in actual prisons. They can force you to undergo virtually any treatment they want within that 72 hours.

The more I read, the crazier these laws seem.

On a related note, it's almost impossible to get a truly mentally ill person help if they don't co-operate. They simply don't do involuntary commitments except in rare cases and then it's for 72 hours max. There's just too many patients to deal with.

Mental illness is a disease treated by outpatient therapy involving drugs. They don't even really bother to get an exact diagnosis in many cases involving the indigent because that is really pretty much impossible with the level of expertise we make available for public consumption.