Maybe Secession Isn't Such a Bad Idea...

[eynon81]

For years the United States has recognized the right of Self-Determination, in fact we were one of the first major powers to recognize and support the concept.

Currently in this country you have 2 Macro-groups who have a stark disagreement over how to structure our society, in as broad a stroke as I can paint it you could label one as the "Liberals" and the others as the "Judeo-Christian Republicans".

Now as many of you know I am a Christian, in fact I'm an Evangelical Christian and I went to a conservative(ish) Catholic Law School...but I'm also pretty firmly in the Liberal camp politically speaking...so I've had plenty of exposure to both group.

The the short of the issue is that there is a substantial minority of Americans who want to live in a country based more directly off what can best be called a Judeo-Christian ethic(some come out and say "on the word of God"). The Majority of Americans however wish to live in a society based on a general Liberal ethic, one I believe was indirectly influenced by many schools of Christian thought, but also grew out of enlightenment and post enlightenment secular concepts (an ethic that I believe more accurately reflects the desires of the founders0.

This social conflict has really hurt our nation, it's wasted tremendous resources, crippled political discourse, and distracted us from more serious issues(I think it's also had a major negative impact on American Christianity). I don't think we can reach compromise on these issues as I believe they stem from an irreconcilable difference in world view and view of our nation and its history.

So...maybe it would be best if we broke up; most of the country could go one way, while the rest could experiment with their Christian Republic. It'd be interesting to watch, would greatly move things forward for both groups, and is in accord with the right of self-determination.

[Spider]

Remember how purple the country averages out to be? How do we sort out the M&M's and where do we draw the lines?

Concerning Red vs Blu

I think a lot of the reason people go one way or the other is their environment. For whatever reason, living in a denser urban area tends to breed Blu people. Living out in the rural areas tends to breed Red people. So...even if we were to grant the Red Nation a few cities...and have the Blu people evacuate...how long before conditions in Crimson City 4 led to a rise of new Blu people. And how long before the Blu people who move to the sticks started Red shifting?

I think we'd wind up arguing about different shades of purple in both the Blu nation and the Red one. People just love to subdivide themselves and argue with each other.

[Professor]

I still can't figure out how secession is illegal.

It is legal to give up citizenship, but you can't be in the US if you do. The individual states own all land, except certain Federal buildings and parks, within their borders.

So, if all of the people in a state were to renounce citizenship, the the Fed has no rights to do anything against them except deport them. And, if a state were to not allow any Federal agents past their borders, except to access Federal lands, then how would the Fed legally keep a state in the Union?

Basically, how is secession illegal?

[eynon81]

[John Galt]

the differences between republicans and democrats are so minor that if the other party is in charge they don't want it, but if their party is in charge, they do

what are these differences you see between "liberals" and "judeo-christian republicans"?

that is to say, i don't know how you're defining these things. in a classical sense i am a liberal and in a classical sense i am also a republican. i don't know what you mean or what you're talking about.



ps i hate that you can smoke weed all day legally

[eynon81]

[John Galt]

[Spider]

@eynon
Fair enough. My take on the "culture war" however is to ensure that my side wins it.

There is a difference between a policy that grants a choice, and policy that removes a choice. The problem with the non-politically secular types to my thinking is that they seek to actually modify the behavior of others by removing choices, and thus stifling liberty. This just isn't OK.

Allowing people to make their own decisions on things is the side I fall on.

The thing that makes me crazy about these issues is...why does religion have to be incompatible with other people making their own choices?

Nobody has any problem with religion until the religious folks start trying to control other people. Its not that we need a division between the secular and the religious...we need a division between those who wish to force their will onto others, and everyone else, be they secular or not.

[Sazari]

[eynon81]