Non's gonna do a racist & sexist thread....

[broken robot]

basically there are two types of progressives:

1) those who want to validate the cultural practices of a marginalized community
2) those who want to critique those same practices from a universal standpoint, premised on the idea that even “they” can be sexist

The way I see it both these positions still approach the issue from a self-consciously outsiders’ perspective, simultaneously ignoring the fact that black women in particular have been critiquing the intersection of racism and sexism for decades. there are too many to list: angela davis, kimberle crenshaw, alice walker, bell hooks, and many more. by ignoring the fact that people of color communities are themselves by no means homogeneous we arrogate to ourselves as outsiders the task of making a decision on whether (black) men cat calling is or isn’t appropriate. It shields us from being forced to reflect on our own dominant society.

For example, what if a black woman made a video of her walking around white neighborhoods? You’d probably see both vicious racism and sexism. further thought experiment: what about a transgender male to female latin woman? etc. etc. just looking at the issue of cat calling for example from one perspective doesn’t do the issue justice. It flattens out the complexity and makes it seem as if this is a common sense universal issue (“women don’t like being cat called”) while implicitly encoding contemporary racial distinctions into our subsequent responses (“(black) men should/shouldn’t be able to do it”).

I don’t think we can approach the issue of harassment ahistorically either, as if this is some uniquely modern issue. I mean I know very little about ancient creece but just looking at the virulent masculinity projected on those vases they put up in museums, I wonder what it would have been like to be a greek woman of a certain status going to market. The point is we can only deal with what are seemingly “common sense” issues (women universally do/don’t like being called out) in terms of the relevant social categories of our time. that means taking race and class into account since they’ve been such pervasive issues since the founding of the united states that shape different communities' attitudes.

Again, I don’t think you can talk about this video in a decontextualized way ignoring the ways in which black masculinity has been regulated by the state and dominant white actors (especially lynchings) and the subsequent historical responses such as, to use an extreme example, eldridge cleaver’s infamous claim that raping white women is part of black liberation.

The only way progressives can even begin to move beyond the basic impasse I mentioned at the beginning is by taking into account the fact that people of color are not homogeneous and that women within those communnities are equally critical of sexist practices, while also acknowledging the pervasive history of institutional racism that affects communities’ changing perceptions of their gender roles, the trope of white women needing to be saved being the most relevant example in this case.

We can’t just watch this video without first putting it into that kind of perspective else we get stuck in the same cyclical debates about whether or not it’s okay for “them” to do it. Non offers something fresh by pointing to the universal issue of state surveillance and punishment as a way of governing and regulating communities, including expanding anti-harassment statutes, but I still don’t think that perspective is enough to resolve the knotty questions of race, class and gender being raised by the video specifically.

[broken robot]

[Philly]

Ok robot good post. But my concern here is not to validate or criticize the behavior of the men in this video, but rather to point out that mainstream feminism is now treading dangerously close to being a movement for the white middle class, at odds with the poor and minorities. Whatever behavior we deem inappropriate shouldn't be excused for any particular group of people but the things being employed in that video are troubling for the reasons I stated above.

[broken robot]

[exploited]

What particular aspect of black culture or history informs the decision to cat call women in the street? And what about the depiction of black men doing this is racist? So she walked in areas that have a high black population, of course there will be more blacks depicted. I for one wouldn't watch that video and even think it was a "black issue," or that the intent was to make blacks look like serial harassers lol. I could get a hot friend to make this video in London, Ontario, and you'd see whites doing it just as often.

I think it is more telling that you guys are talking about how a universal behavior somehow spawned from a unique racial experience. It's utter nonsense.

[Philly]

[broken robot]

[Nate501]

[broken robot]

[eynon81]