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GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why? • Page 17 • General Discussion • Political Crossfire Forums

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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby Indy » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:02 pm

And that's the point: it's the same argument. :-bd
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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby exploited » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:24 pm

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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby Indy » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:43 pm

I've established that among mostly/consistently conservative, no surprise, FOX is overwhelmingly the "most trusted source" and also far and away the main source. Which shouldn't even need to be quantified at this point. And that the other sources considered trustworthy are a very small group, and they're ideologically directly in line with FOX.

I also showed that more than a third of FOX's audience is identifying themselves as "mixed" which means that thinking FOX only appeals to conservatives doesn't hold, or that people who are buying the FOX message don't necessarily call themselves conservatives.

But we're just focusing on this one study. All the other things I've noted from years of witnessing it here--decades--are just as real.

And to my other point, no, it was not always like this here: not in the 70s, or even the 80s. It's no coincidence that right-wing media exploded in the early 90s--along with the Internet.

And here we are.
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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby exploited » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:49 pm

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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby Indy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:18 am

Really? Only 25% of conservatives consume right-wing media? Do tell.
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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby exploited » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:39 am

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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby Indy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:40 am

Did you even look at the chart? That's not true at all. They didn't trust almost everything that wasn't markedly right-wing. The things they did trust: FOX, Hannity, Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. The only four sources that got half or more.

For liberals it was almost inverse, and their sources netting 50% or higher were at least nine.

"Mixed" was slightly less than liberals but not like these conservative people.

Not to mention, when you've got over half of these people saying they trust Rush Limbaugh... I mean, there's a problem right there.
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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby exploited » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:46 am

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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby Indy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:25 am

Actually, at the end of the day what we are left with is the fact that I've actually lived here--where you don't--for decades, and have witnessed the titanic change since right-wing media exploded. And, the party went from being simply a lower-tax alternative to the Dems to this bug-eyed monstrosity that now completely mirrors what you see in the right-wing media to the point where you can't tell where one begins and the other ends.

In fact, I wrote here years ago about how it was becoming increasingly apparent that the true ideological sources for The Party were actually media figures like Rush Limbaugh, to the point where Party members wouldn't criticize him because he'd unleash his media power upon their re-election chances. This was well-documented by the way, where elected leaders would be forced to apologize to Rushbo on or off the air for their crime of disloyalty.

That was my first inkling that the tail has started to wag the dog. After all, who is putting down the Party line anyway? The head of the RNC? Do you think people have even know how that is for years? In that respect, whom do you think holds more influence? Somebody like Michael Steele (in his day) or... Roger Aisles?

I've also watched first-hand as U.S. right-wing media has spent years teaching its viewers/listeners that the greatest mortal enemy to this country isn't economic distress or a foreign military threat or the disappearing middle class or lack of opportunity--it's "the left." Slowly but steadily more and more outrageous claims were launched, where 10, 20 years ago you'd have to listen to Alex Jones to hear shit like this. But it's primetime on FOX. Par for the course on Rush.

Also what came more and more to the forefront was the clear race-baiting. Whereas before the dog-whistling was restricted to code words like "welfare," people like Rush could barely conceal the blatant race-baiting put forth every day, while FOX in recent years turned up the volume with the relentless screeching about "Entitlement Nation." And of course, the Muslims. And the Mexicans. And the sense of white grievance which, no: was not a huge thing in recent years--this idea that white people are the victims in this country. That went through the f***ing ceiling when Obama was elected--what a coincidence--and it's been a hardcore staple of right-wing media ever since. Your country is being usurped by those f***ing blacks, Muslims and Mexicans, white christian man! Absolutely, positively the main thrust of right-wing media for at least eight years now, and Trump is the grand result of people who have bought into that message. But really, most every GOP candidate is now, in addition to being elected for no other reason than to go to Washington and stick it to "the left."

No, it wasn't like this before. And that's the whole point. So if you want to pretend there's absolutely no connection, good luck to you, sir. You haven't been here to witness it.

And if you want to keep pulling out the "few bad apples" routine--i.e., right-wing media isn't influencing but a small minority of conservatives, because allegedly there is this Vast Majority of them who don't pay attention to it, who are moderate, I ask you this: where are their candidates, then?
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Re: GOP Fretting About Monster It & FOX Created. Why?

Postby exploited » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:52 am

This is the thing Indy: I didn't contend there was "no connection." What I said was that you are drastically overestimating the impact of media. That's the thing: there is a connection, but that connection really only applies to those who are "consistently conservative," and tend to be over 45-50 years old. In other words, insane right-wing Boomers. But even then the impact is still somewhat minimal, as only (roughly) half of the consistent conservatives rely on that type of media.

You are simply assuming that this vocal minority is an accurate reflection of how the rest of the party feels. I don't think that is the case at all - I think that the Republican Party has an extremist, absolute minority, who is incredibly politically active and very vocal, and that because of this, their power over the party is vastly disproportionate to their numbers. I think that most people are completely burned out trying to deal with these extremist elements, and have largely given up not only on the Republican Party, but on party politics in general. I think that the media has had a dramatic impact on conservatives, but only on those few conservatives who are bat-shit crazy and spend all day listening to the same tripe - on the radio, on TV, on the internet. And there is a feedback loop: corporate media likes noisy, dramatic people, and so noisy, dramatic people get covered more, which in turn increases their power, which causes more coverage, etc.

We are living in an age of massive apathy, where people aren't participating anymore. People have largely rejected the idea that the system works for them, or can change for them. So who are they turning too?

They are turning to people like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. People they perceive as outsiders, willing to say the things that the Establishment candidates will not. Now, those perceptions might be untrue, and their support for those candidates might be misguided - but they definitely are not supporting these people because the media said so. The media hates both those candidates. What does that tell you?

People are sick of the establishment. They think that ANY alternative to the establishment is better than the establishment itself. That's how bad it has gotten.

Frankly, I don't disagree. I think Trump is a complete moron, but I'd still vote for him over somebody like Clinton (if I could). Because while he is a moron, he at least says what he means (even if what he means is nuts). People are sick of candidates getting up in front of the cameras and giving polished little speeches and making stupid promises that never amount to anything. They would rather see a raving moron elected than have to go along with the delusion that the establishment candidates might actually give a shit about the voter, might mean what they say, etc., even as they sell them out to big business.

Now, just to be clear, I am not saying that Sanders is as bad as Trump. I like Sanders, and I think he is still the best choice for President (despite a few serious misgivings I have, planted by Comrade). But at the end of the day, he isn't what I want from a candidate. His politics have been unchanged for 40 years. His idea of revolution is universal health care. He'll never get behind a universal guaranteed minimum income. He'll never get behind the total abolition of the war on drugs, the total legalization of prostitution, massive investments in space technology, cutting military spending in half, etc. He really isn't a good candidate based on what I actually want. But he is willing to behave, say, and pursue things, in ways that are different than the establishment.

I suspect that there are MANY people who are like me, in both parties. I suspect that if either party put forward a candidate with truly forward-thinking ideas, based on their respective ideological assumptions, those candidates would enjoy massive success. But instead we are electing candidates who aren't very good, simply because the alternative is a fundamentally broken system.

You talk about the oligarchy all the time, but I don't think you really grasp it. The oligarchy is real. Our democracy is a total sham. People realize that, and that's how guys like Sanders and Trump get elected.
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