The Socialist Dream Crumbles in Venezuela

[The Comrade]

working class would never give up their position to be ruled over by an oligarch.

[exploited]

[broken robot]

[The Dharma Bum]

You guys are wrong. Consensualism is totally a possibility for human society.

The purpose for coercion is to prevent individuals from improving their environment and nothing more. Coercion is not necessary at all and serves to substitute the will of the individual with that of the will of the controlling entity.

The problem is you all willingly accept coercion because you see it as an avenue to get what you want either politically, socially, or in a material sense. However studies have shown that society that have little or not coercion also have little or no mental illness.

What you guys look at as the "glue that holds society together" is actually predatory behavior that does little but damage society and the social relations of it's participants. Coercion is literally defined as a crime in nearly all societies. There's a reason for that.

Coercion is socially destructive.

[The Dharma Bum]

Basically speaking the argument against consensualism is one that Medius has put forth several times, that it will take forever and will take up much time.

However this activity literally IS human society itself, the entire point of our interactions with each other is to reach consensus, and it is the disruption of this activity that alienates the individual. Coercion is interference in the self-actualization of individuals and industrial efficiency is simply not a good enough reason to damage society in this manner.

[The Dharma Bum]

Thought experiment

Is it ok to coerce sexual activity with a women? It is inarguable that producing children is socially beneficial in terms of production, so the justification for rape is the exact same as for other forms of coercion.

Is rape acceptable?

[exploited]

No, rape is not acceptable, but some human beings think that it is. Laws against rape would therefore constitute coercion. Just like some people think having sex with 12 year olds is healthy, natural and historically accepted. To force them and their 12 year old daughter/rape victim to abide by those laws is also coercion.

Coercion is absolutely necessary for laws to have any meaning.

[The Dharma Bum]

Basically what it comes down to is the use of power. Power can flow in two directions. In authoritarian societies power is expressed from the top in an authority figure. In egalitarian societies it is the power of consensus that determines action and if there is any form of leadership the power flows up from this source and totally determines the actions of the leadership. One person or organization may be tapped by the people to act as a figure that people can follow but all of their power is derived from consensus between the individuals that comprise the polity.

Yes, the use of power is inherent to human society. However this is not a strict correlation with the incidence of force. Non-coercive power can be expressed upwards from the bottom and it is this aim that ideologies that seek social justice mean to achieve.

[exploited]

Unless everyone agrees to everything, coercion exists. Your argument is totally irrational.

[The Dharma Bum]