Pope Francis Takes Down "Conservatism"

[Mr.Bill]

[The Comrade]

many conservatives revere maggie thatcher. think they would have taken orders from her?

[JDHURF]

[The Comrade]

well, it is about taking orders when the pope is telling you what is and is not morally wrong.

[JDHURF]

That is your interpretation. When Chomsky gives a lecture on U.S. foreign policy and people form new opinions in light of the fact, do you consider that an example of people taking orders from Chomsky? Or isn't it really just an example of people altering positions after being influenced by a prominent speaker?

Put another way, one cannot take orders when orders where not even issued in the first place.

[The Comrade]

that's certainly an interesting way to try and say coercion isn't the same as giving orders. they're two sides of the same coin, only the methods differ.

[JDHURF]

What are you even talking about?

[The Comrade]

if i command you to do something, or i coerce you to do something, it's not a whole lot different. one just uses my authority and one just uses my guile.

do you really think chomsky gives lectures and talks because he's passionate about it, or because he wants to convince other people he's right? you can call it what you want, but it's coercion, and it's just the flip-side of commanding. this thing with the pope is no different. he doesn't just say things to say them, he does so with the intention of people listening and adhering.

[JDHURF]

I'm sorry, I love you, but that is an absolutely idiotic distortion of coercion.

You are conflating coercion with influence. Giving a lecture or speech with the hopes that people freely adopt similar positions as those advocated in the speech is an example of influence. Coercion would be forcing people to adopt positions through threats of physical violence or force. In any case, you initially claimed that Pope Francis was giving people orders which is different even from simple persuasive influence and coercion. I'm still waiting for the citation of the orders dictated.

[The Dharma Bum]

Is persuasion equal to coercion?

Only if fraud or other trickery is involved.