istanbul

[Saz]

[Saz]

The Roman Empire provided the religious basis for just about every political group in Europe up until the french revolution (ww1 really). Why do you think every king had a divine right to be king? Because ultimately they were the descendants of Christian Rome, or kings who bent the knee to rome and turned to accept christianity. Czar literally means caesar and the entire orthodox church is derived from byzantium. Rome was (and still is) the center of the christian world.

You radically underplay the role of religion in human history. I think its all made up stories that wither under the scrutiny of a clever 5 year old, and I'm sure you do too. But for most of human history people simply didn't know better, and religion guided their life. It was absolutely inseparable from politics. To suggest they would be separated would be like saying you can separate morality and politics today. Religious fanatics haven't ruled the world for the vast majority of human kind by accident. No doubt many didn't believe it, and no doubt many had completely non-religious priorities, but they still had to pretend. Even today the president has to pretend to be religious, just as I'm sure a few psychopaths pretend to be religious so they can shoot a bazooka or get a wife in Syria.

I'm a bit disheartened by how naive you seem to be about this. We live in a liberal educated wealthy democracy and religion still dominates politics. A bunch of 3rd century peasants certainly knew no better, and it was the easiest way you could trick them into fighting for you. The ones to clever to fall for that, you kill or bribe. You call it politics but it always has a religious angle and overtone to it. Was Stannis fighting a religious war or a political one?

[John Galt]

the romans were "tolerant" in that they took an approach of incorporation of other pagan deities into their panthenon. jupiter had so many mistresses because of this. but when monothestic religions came into contact with it, romans were hostile. the reason was they couldn't merge their religions.

but this doesn't mean they weren't fanatical. their way of life revolved around their religion.

modern day example: the westboro baptist church is described by many as "fanatical". do they kill people? no. they're just giant assholes. but that doesn't make them any less fanatical. or sure, there are fanatics that killed lots of people in modern times. as mentioned the japanese flying planes into ships to kill their enemies with their divine wind for the emperor, who was considered a god. the taiping heavenly kingdom, founded by the younger brother of jesus, was a state in china for almost 15 bloody years that saw the most death of any war ever (estimated up to 100 million dead, or 8% of the world population at the time). and they were PROGRESSIVE. they banned foot binding. they were classless. sexes were equal. women could go into civil service, including the army. slavery and prostitution were banned. of course... they also executed people for using alcohol. and married people were even forbidden from having sex for some time during their rule. but this doesn't mean it wasn't a functioning state. it doesn't mean they weren't fanatics. yeah it was political ends they were seeking... like ISIS.

my point was simply that you're wrong in stating that fanatics can't run a government. this is untrue. throughout human history fanatics have been running governments, mostly religious types. the oldest surviving structures on earth are all monuments to religious zeal.

obviously under pressure from the west, ISIS starts folding. but their use of religion and executing infidels was to show their power. they were using religion to show how they weren't afraid of western powers. and why would they be? they knew westerners have lost the stomach for a real fight, so they descended on the area like vultures. but just because they are seeking political ends doesn't make them any less fanatical in their beliefs. and just because they are fanatics doesn't mean they can't run a state. they have driver licenses you know. they provide food and security. they act like a state because they aim to create one

[ToddStarnes]

[ToddStarnes]

[John Galt]

[Saz]

[exploited]

[Saz]

you f**k it's 5am now i have the edited thing on my post. go to sleep

[exploited]