Has social conservatism pushed too far?

[Philly]

[Indy]

Insane.

[Mr.Bill]

In upstate NY there are a whole bunch of dead and dying towns and cities. 30+ years ago or so when the manufacturing moved out the cities died, especially their downtown area.. Seriously there are some cities of 30,000 or so people who's downtown area is at least 70% of the buildings are vacant..

BUT there a some success stores, some that did bounce back, and they did 2 major things to bounce back..

1) they zoned their downtown areas to severely limit or not allow at all big box, big chain stores or restaurants..

2) they cleaned out the crime... For an example of that on a much larger scale see NYC and Times Square.

Of course many cities didn't do that, because their politicians didn't care, or kissed up to the big chain stores who drove even more of the downtown small businesses out of business. Or as you pointed out they're so stupid their pricing of the renovated buildings actually drives the small businesses away..

[Ben Huh]

[Philly]

Times Square is still one of the worst places on earth, but can't even imagine how much out-of-city money gets pumped into NYC's economy there.

[Mr.Bill]

Yeah, the crime is a big deal.. Let's face it to build up any area you want tourists, and their money.. And the 25-55 YO demographic with some bucks in his/her pocket... But if crime is an issue and the tourist or person with money doesn't feel safe, they'll go elsewhere to spend their money.. And there's plenty of other of places to go..

[Indy]

And you hit upon a key element: the zoning; i.e., gov't.

This is an example of gov't intervening that does in fact help the people instead of simply the corporate interests. Too often so-called "free market" people really mean "free for all market," with zero gov't involvement and there you are.

It's in instances like your example where gov't is needed and can work WITH capitalism to benefit the people.

To your points (all of you) and I live in a big city:

-The bookstore at the end of my street lasted a few months after the Borders a few blocks down opened (ironically the Borders died a few years ago, killed by Amazon)
-The ACE Hardware at the end of my street lasted maybe a year after the Home Depot opened a half mile away
-However, the Seattle's Best chain store that opened didn't last long as our local place has a big following

In my neighborhood mostly all the restaurants are local save for three, four chains (fast food, no sit-down restaurants). I'm pretty sure it's a zoning thing.

Go to the suburbs though and forget it: everything there is a chain.

[Ben Huh]

For sure. Thing is, there's nothing here to bring in young, career minded people fresh out of college to come in and stay here because there are few career positions here a and those in them will fight for them tooth and nail and fight against more career people coming to town. Worse part? There's a goddamn college in the next town over called Frostburg State. Give some of those kids a reason to come and live here long term after school. Making 30k in Cumberland makes you middle class. With the amount I make here considering the average cost of living, I was able to save up tons of cash and combine with other funds to outright buy a house. If I can do that, others can. I'm an outright, no mortgage homeowner at 29 years old. This place can be awesome if they let it be.

[eynon81]

[Indy]