Russian vassalization of Ukraine

[The Comrade]

[The Dharma Bum]

[exploited]

[The Comrade]

[exploited]

You're kidding me.

4. Puts other important foreign policy options at risk (Iran, Syria, nuclear cooperation)

5. Will result in an insurgency in Crimea, which either the Ukrainians or the West will have to put down

6. Will require attacking targets in Russia, and consequently will lead to an escalation, despite your attempts to make Putin out as a bitchmade Russian Hitler who will just go "Oh I'm sorry let me remove those Russian corpses so NATO can roll in right beside my capital."

7. Will have notable civilian and military casualties;

8. The Ukraine is not strategically valuable to the US. Maybe to the EU. Maybe to Russia. But not to the US. This is something for the Europeans to handle if they think it's important... And if we accept your arguments re: Russia's willingness to fight, it'll be no big thing.

As for the EU argument, I'd say that for the most part, success that can be attributed to the EU is somewhat elusive. The countries that are doing well were already doing well. The countries that are not doing well are that way for the same reasons they weren't doing well before the EU. Not that it matters.

You know what I just realized?

Your PCFs new Peter Dow.

[exploited]

[The Comrade]

[Kane]

[exploited]

Ukraine's autonomy isn't infringed by NATO not accepting their membership, no more than mine is by getting turned down by my wife.

Since Crimea is likely to separate from Ukraine if given the opportunity, and Putin knows it, as does everyone else in the world, getting there by drawing-down and allowing elections doesn't make him look weak. It makes him look strong. It makes him look like he is willing to work with others while still defending Russia's interests... which, as a matter of fact, is exactly what he would be doing.

As for the "fairy tale" thing, whatever. It matters not, since Russia is getting Crimea one way or another, and nothing will ever come of it but sanctions and mean words. And of course there is the fact that most incredible diplomatic success stories are viewed as fairytales before they happen. An Egyptian President flying to Israel to address their legislature? THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN.

Putin isn't crazy. He will most certainly be that way if you start killing Russians in Crimea though.

[The Comrade]

was just reading about merkel. considering germany's position in the EU, her opinion of russia is going to really influence how the EU moves forward in dealing with them.