Russian vassalization of Ukraine

[John Galt]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 5-11-29-56

china abstained from the un motion declaring the crimiea vote illegal.
russia vetoed it.
everybody else said it was illegal.

china wouldn't go against russia but instead sat it out, but it's pretty clear how isolated they are on this.

russia has troops all over crimea to protect the people against fascists that don't exist and they don't even acknowledge them as their own troops. shady f**k shit.

[John Galt]

[exploited]

You're just going to have to get over the fact that nobody sane is eager to get involved militarily. I know the chance to stomp Russians means a lot to you, but at some point you'll have to come to terms with strategic reality.

[Darkhorse]

I think what we've got to come to terms with is the reality that Russia is NEVER going to be our buddy. They've got the "Eastern Europe will rise again" mentality and it isn't going away. We're going to war with them sooner or later; the question is when.

Our abysmal foreign policy the last few decades is really coming back to bite us in the ass. We destroyed our high road by invading Iraq and spying on all of our allies. Our country is in no mood to fight another war. At the same time, by allowing Ukraine to become Russia's bitch we're letting all of our allies from the old Eastern Bloc know that we don't actually have their backs.

Russia and China know this. They know Obama doesn't have the guts to do anything about this. Russia is planning on walking away from this with Crimea and a huge amount of nationalist pride, while other countries in Eastern Europe start wondering if trying to become part of the west is really worth it.

What a mess. We blew our load on that shit hole Iraq and now when a legitimate threat to world stability presents itself we're flaccid and sleepy. This should really be the EU's problem, but they're every bit as pathetic as they've been made out to be.

[The Comrade]

93% voted to join russia, which means 7% voted to secede and join russia later.

and turnout was 80%

considering 80% of crimea isn't even russian i highly doubt these numbers. then again, anyone who thought this vote wasn't going to be tampered with is an idiot.

[gla22]

[Darkhorse]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... begun.html

Yeah, there is no question in my mind that the Russians are stuffing the boxes. I think Putin is going to get away with this and it's a f**k tragedy. If non-proliferation of nuclear weapons is something we're serious about then we need to be there for countries that agree to give up their nuclear weapons program. You can bet Ukraine is kicking itself for getting rid of theirs, I'm sure others have taken notice.

[The Comrade]

it's going to have long-term repercussions for sure. nuclear proliferation for one, and a continued eroding of the west's influence. why align yourself with the west if they're just going to sell you out in the name of convenience?

[The Dharma Bum]

Well it will be a bigger tragedy if the West tries to get stupid and stop this with military force. Given the history, Russia will not let go of Crimea without a fight.

There's another perspective of the region's history apart from the UKcentric "charge of the light brigade" mythology or the Cold War radical right mythology, and the fact of the matter is that at the time of the first struggle between the West and Russia over Crimea the US were staunch allies of Russia against the scheming of the various European imperialist factions that we call the European Union.

At the time the British and French empires that fomented the US civil war in the interests of maintaining control over the vast textile trade. If it were not for Russia's alliance with the US the British and French would have likely intervened in US affairs and regained their hold over their former colonies in the New World. Both the US Civil War and the so-called "Great Game" were separate theatres in the massive expansion of the European empires that occurred during the age of imperialism.

So, from the Russian perspective the US, a former ally in the , is helping the British, French, and German Empires combined in invading their domain in the new version of the Great Game.

They are not just doing this to be bastards. They are doing what is rational self interest on their part and it is childish to look at it any other way.

[The Comrade]

Yeah I'm sure they're mad about an unofficial alliance two centuries dead