Are so called "Welfare States" so bad?

[anarchy]

[eynon81]

well, we're a welfare state too. something like half the households in the country receive federal bennies of one sort or another.

[Indy]

Um, our biggest welfare recipients are TBTF banks and mega-corporations who absolutely drain this country of gazillions every year.

So calling those countries "welfare states" while you're probably the biggest example of a welfare state is the height of buffoonery and ass-clownery.

But you can't use the dog whistle when calling out corporate welfare so it's of no use. Plus, the people calling those countries welfare states WANT the current arrangement to stay in place.

They also don't want Americans realizing that other countries do certain things better, so they butter up Americans with myths like "Best healthcare in the world" or they smear the successful countries as being "socialist" (eek!).

[eynon81]

[eynon81]

btw....this is just further evidence to me we should bag the corporate tax rate altogether.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-w ... subsidies/

[Indy]

[Professor]

Got a serious question. I was going to say something along the lines of "they may work in other countries, but the US is different." However, that's used WAY too often, without any supporting evidence to support it.

However, I will point out that, culturally, the US is different than many other countries. European countries (and others) have a long history of "being provided for." Going back thousands of years, you had wealthy landowners who had people living on their land. The people worked to make food and goods, and provide services, but ultimately, everything was the property of the landowner (landowner, in this case, also means "monarch" or equivalent, even if they didn't legally "own" the land). In return, the landowner provided defense against invaders, and other benefits and services to the citizenry.

Contrast that with the "typical" US cultural background. When we think of all our ancestors who started the US, we think of rugged individuals. People that started with nothing and made something of themselves. Even when it's not "factually" true, we still believe it.

I guess my point is that, in "fact" the US is probably no different than these other countries. But, we resist the government providing for us, even when it would benefit us, because we hold some notion that we should be like all those people we read about in high school history that started with a piece of land and became some industrial magnate or something.

[Indy]

Right but the whole "rugged individual" thing is just a myth. Unless you think all of the one-percenters are Rugged Individuals. That's another thing we tend to do: think that super-rich people got that way by hard work and starting from the ground up.

Speaking of which, corporations are people and as we see here people who are the biggest welfare whores of all time in this country so clearly they're not Rugged Individuals either.

I think the difference is in other countries citizens expect their gov't to actually DO something whereas here since the 80s at least it's been cast as the villain, and when it does provide things for Americans that's "Entitlement Nation!" or "socialism!"

[Professor]

[Indy]

LOL exactly.

My favorite is when somebody tells me that SS is an "entitlement." Um, I've been paying into that my whole life--nobody's "giving" me anything.