Protests in Ferguson, Missouri

[eynon81]

[Saz]

[quote="John Galt"]no one had to march for minutes let alone weeks so that there would be a trial for zimmerman

the staten island cop has been stripped of shield and gun, and the cop union has denounced this action, and they are investigating him

investigations take longer than a night, longer than weeks, longer than months[/quote]

It took 6 weeks after the shooting for a special prosecutor, appointed by the governor due to the protests, to charge zimmerman. Nothing would have been done, and he would never have seen a courtroom, had people not taken to the streets.

The staten island DA still has not charged the officer in question despite it being clear what happened on video, and the medical examiner clearly stating the cause of death was homicide. What's to investigate? If I choked out someone on the street like that, I would be in a jail cell waiting for my trail. He should be also.

Investigations always seem to take just long enough for the media cycle to turn. It's honestly outrageous that these individuals are even allowed to be conducting their own investigations. You think the DA in staten island isn't going to favor the police? Of course they will. You think St. Louis Country PD is going to properly investigate what happened in Ferguson? Of course not. Unless noise is made, nothing gets done.

It's absolute bullshit the degree to which people want to give the police the benefit of the doubt. Why don't they all wear cameras? Why is there not a federal agency that investigates cops who shoot citizens? These issues SHOULD be big enough to warrant some sort of response. Instead, we just hear about "investigations" that drag on for months until media attention is turned elsewhere, only for the culprit to get a slap on the wrist.

[Professor]

[John Galt]

there wasn't enough evidence to arrest zimmerman. and in fact, he was later found not guilty. it was arguably a waste of government resources. so maybe you're right and they had to give into the mob, but at least justice won the day there. i suppose what i mean to say is that if they suspect someone of a crime they will eventually charge them, even if the investigation takes a while

[Saz]

[quote="fstarcstar"][quote="Saz"][quote="exploited"]From what I've read, the police officer involved had severe facial lacerations and had to be hospitalized. So there is a chance this is much ado about nothing - although to be clear, this doesn't vindicate police response to the protests.[/quote]

This isn't much ado about nothing at all. You all completely miss the point. This isn't about saying what did or didn't happen. This is about recognizing there is a serious issue in question, and properly following up on that. Why do people have to riot to ensure something like this goes to trial? Why do people have to march for weeks to ensure the Trayvon incident went to trial? What ever happened in staten island with the cop who choked out that guy? No one rioted, or protested...and apparently nothing was done.

The issue isn't whether the shooting is justified or not. The issue is that despite it being completely unclear what happened, there is no confidence in any of these communities that a true and fair investigation into the incident will take place, unless people take to the street.[/quote]

Saz. I disagree. The reason this blew up was because he was unarmed and an innocent sweet boy that never hurt a fly, which unfortunately happened a time when other incidents around the country happened. (the big guy choked to death which has been universally seen as wrong)

The emotional pleas by his mother and others is what caused most of this outrage. They're including Trayvon Martin as if these are related, and they aren't.[/quote]

This has nothing to do with his innocence! This has everything to do with the fact multiple witnesses said he was gunned down after he stopped fleeing, and had his hands in the air. Whatever happened before that, there is NO reason to execute someone in that position.

This blew up because despite witness statements, the police did NOTHING to indicate they were investigating the incident. The body was left out for hours. The cops name was never realized. Witnesses were never talked to. Nothing was going to get done and as much as people want to say rioting is never justified, I guarantee we wouldn't be at this point in the justice process if they hadn't burned and looted a quiktrip and received national attention.

It's sad because people like you will insist violence is never the answer, when reality tells us precisely the opposite. The problems and issues facing low income and black communities, abusive police being a huge one, are ignored unless they take to the streets and start destroying things for attention.

[Professor]

Random thought - you know what would be nice to have? Not only "video" of an officer, but a semi-live feed of all the videos. Delay the videos an hour or so (so that someone can't go online and say, "No cops are near the bank - I'm gonna rob it!), but have a feed so that the video is in the hands of the public almost immediately.

[Saz]

[quote="John Galt"]there wasn't enough evidence to arrest zimmerman. and in fact, he was later found not guilty. it was arguably a waste of government resources. so maybe you're right and they had to give into the mob, but at least justice won the day there. i suppose what i mean to say is that if they suspect someone of a crime they will eventually charge them, even if the investigation takes a while[/quote]

There was enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman, as evidence by the fact that a special prosecutor issued an arrest warrant for him. He was found not guilty, and I think rightly so. No one is asking for an outcome, people are asking the process be respected. If you shoot an unarmed kid, you should have to defend that action in court. You should not be investigated by a non-neutral body like the police, and then sent home with your gun. You are right in the end, justice won the day, but only because people protested to make sure the just and legal outcome was delivered in COURT. Not after a 5 hour talking to by the police.

And I disagree with the last part. If they suspect a cop of the crime and there is not national attention, that officer will receive leniency that no other citizens would ever get. All to often we see situations where someone obviously should be charged and see a courtroom, where they aren't. Hell, look at this staten island case. It's completely at the DA's discretion to charge the officer. The DA no doubt works with the cops a lot, knows the cops, understands the power their union wields. Why is charging this officer at the DA's discretion? It's obvious he SHOULD be charged. Maybe the DA will get it right in this case, but how many towns in the south with sheriff f**k does this happen, and the DA doesn't do anything? There needs to be a more effective check on the police, or otherwise people will keep rioting in every instance like this where they feel the local police are biased and will not or cannot conduct a proper investigation.

[Philly]

Live stream or even an hour delay would create all sorts of problems with ongoing investigations which are rightly kept secret for a period of time. But there should be a way to record it where it's automatically sent to a database that the PD cannot tamper with.

[Professor]

[Saz]

[quote="Professor"]Random thought - you know what would be nice to have? Not only "video" of an officer, but a semi-live feed of all the videos. Delay the videos an hour or so (so that someone can't go online and say, "No cops are near the bank - I'm gonna rob it!), but have a feed so that the video is in the hands of the public almost immediately.[/quote]

I completely agree. Issues like this could be completely avoided because the video would be out in hours, and what took place would be clear. But guess who opposes measures like this? Guess why they aren't in place? It's the police fighting them! And you have to wonder why, because I'm sure there are many instances of false complaints about abuse against the police that a video record could easily defend them from. They say it's expensive to give every officer a camera, but somehow they have money for APC's and camouflage gear. This is what aggravates me. There are easy solutions to problems like this. Make a federal investigative body to deal with instances where cops kill a citizen. Have a federal law requiring all officer to wear a video camera that cannot be tampered with or turned off, and keep the video for 90 days. It's common sense and democratically popular, and yet police lobbies and unions continue to stone wall such initiatives. Why?