Here Comes the War on Terror, v 2.0

[Professor]

Something interesting I just read (perhaps it was in Malcolm Gladwell's new book, or somewhere else, I can't remember). Basically, it pointed out that most terrorists are NOT taken from dirt-poor families with "nothing to lose". They are, in fact, children of wealthy parents/families, who often have some education. This would imply that people's needs being met and being able to actualize as a human being are actually allowing people to focus on other things, like terrorism.

Basically, if you are fighting every day to put food on the table, you don't have time to fight for other things.

[exploited]

It really depends on what group you are talking about.

International terrorists tend to be educated, middle class and above, with technical expertise in some relevant area (weaponry, bomb making, engineering, pilots, etc).

Domestic terrorists are often recruited from the poorest sectors of society. The people doing the suicide bombings and what not.

Essentially, the class system holds even in terrorist organizations. The poor are disposable, involved in low level tasks, and kept away from the organizational side of things. Motivations are usually tribal or nationalist.

The rich are the managerial class. Less likely to sacrifice themselves because they are too valuable to the cause. Also they tend to endorse Islamic colonialism and international jihad. These are the ones who can't be bought.

[Indy]

To Prof's point about how the net casualty rate of Americans if you take out 9/11 is like three a year; problem is, nobody will be thinking about that when the next 9/11 happens or if they set off a dirty bomb in Manhattan.

You have to consider the financial and psychological consequences of such an attack, besides the human toll. Look how 9/11 ruined us: the heinous Patriot Act, the financial setback, we jumped into two wars that have cost us at least three trillion dollars--wars that have done nothing. In fact, we've lost I believe double the amount of Americans in these wars than we did on 9/11.

So while I certainly don't want to amp up the scaremongering, I also think we'd better deal with this now rather than later.

[exploited]

There really isn't anything to deal with. International jihadists want you out of their countries. They also seek the removal of international mores from their world, in favor of something that resembles Islamic government (but is actually much worse than what is proscribed by the Qur'an). Energy and economic factors prevent this from happening. Thus, conflict is inevitable, and it will only get worse until we establish true ideological dominance (which we lack the political stomach for) or we leave (which we can't do).

Everything that can realistically be done (better intelligence gathering, better domestic security, a legal framework for anti-terror operations) already has been, plus a bunch of stuff that is umrealistic (like spreading democracy by force). The world is about as safe as it can get given the reality of our needs and wants. The only way to make it safer is to finish off our most beloved and beleaguered freedoms.

[Indy]

[jimmyz]

[exploited]

[The Comrade]

until they come back and you shits let them in because you're terrified of being called racists or some shit.

[exploited]

[Saz]

I'll go out on a limb and make a bold yet obviously intelligent prediction. ISIS, which has recruited thousands of western "citizens," will truly begin to test what western countries mean when they say someone is a "citizen." European countries are already significantly more restrictive than the US, where you just have to be born on god given free american soil to enjoy the wonderful bounty of our land and the god given freedom that only the USA protects.

While I can't see the USA changing much at the moment, I expect the euros to get very very nationalistic and start making it even more difficult for people of certain backgrounds to become citizens. Quite frankly, it's bullshit you have immigrants coming into the UK, living in posh London suburbs, and then going off to Syria to behead westerners in the name of Jihad. That's how you quickly end up with a border closed to foreigners. These issues are already extremly decisive in some countries (Holland for example). Just wait until it's a common occurrence for european citizens to be participating in attacks, beheadings, and other propaganda for ISIS. Just wait until an attack in one of these countries. I don't think the euros realize it, but countries like the UK, France, Holland etc are one attack away from radically changing their immigration policies.

Honestly though, I can't say I blame them. Europe is different than the US in that it does have very defined cultures and there sing a single country that could compare to the US in terms of innate diversity. I can see why it's upsetting for people from secular or liberal countries like France and Holland to have a bunch of immigrants who not only have zero respect for the culture and institutions of the country that took them in, they have a disdain for it! I can't tell you how many people I've come across in Europe who have an absolute disgust for the western way of life, and hold and voice views that in America would get you on a list, very quickly. It's truly disturbing the number of French, Brits, Dutch and other european youths who want Sharia implemented in their country, or who think groups like Al-Queda and ISIS are legitimate organizations pursuing legitimate goals. I'm sorry but countries like the UK, France, etc are not immigrant countries like the USA. They have clear and well defined cultures going back hundreds of years. It's a privilege for anyone from outside their borders to be allowed in, and you should have a modicum of respect for the institutions and culture of the country you CHOSE to make your home. Most immigrants do this but as the numbers joining ISIS show, huge numbers do not do this and instead choose to wage war on their adoptive countries. And unfortunately, the numbers are large enough that I think it's an indication that it's a community problem. You can't have 500 arab kids find their way to Syria without anyone in the community knowing about it. These aren't lone psychos off on an adventure. It's a serious serious problem that will come to a head soon.

This is Terrorism 2.0. And it won't be fought in Afghanistan or Iraq. It will be fought at the borders, it will be fought online, and it will be fought in council estates.