Israel shot 4800 shells at Gaza neighborhood in seven hours.

[exploited]

[Spider]

[exploited]

Yeah the issue is that I addressed almost all of your points. You argued that 4G warfare is more damaging and longer (false and true respectively). You argued that the iron fist approach would be more effective. You argued that insurgencies in Iraq were inevitable - which I agreed was true but their severity was not. You also argued that international law is optional and it's effectiveness only stems from enforcement - which is obviously the case considering that I'm arguing for pressuring Israel to obey international law.

What other point were you trying to make? What particular quote would you like me to respond to, since my posting style distresses you so?

[Dylan]

[Dylan]

[exploited]

Spider just wanted you to know that Israel doesn't have to follow international law, therefore pressuring them to follow it is... Wrong...???

[Spider]

No, I didn't argue that 4G warfare was more damaging than WW2, for crying out loud. I'm not arguing that small, modern wars are somehow comparable to old ones.


Think of it this way. Iraq was defeated in 2003. It only took a couple of months for the coalition to completely defeat it and topple its government. With only a small minority of the overall casualties and destruction inflicted. But, because of the reality imposed by making war a political-media enterprise, instead of a military one, how does that compare with the overall death and destruction caused over the full course of the ensuing occupation? We even conflated the occupation with actual war goals. And war and occupation are obviously very different. I'm not comparing Iraq (or whatever) with some war from the past that is intrinsically incomparable to it, I'm comparing Iraq as it was to Iraq without the 4G element that made it 10 times worse. Its a hypothetical, not a contrast. The point is that the decision to pull punches out of concern for what makes it onto the news, and how the politicos will frame it is what has lead to the popular use of insurgencies. Its because big powers allow themselves to be influenced by terrorist tactics that terrorism is legitimized and maintained. They kept blowing up their own country, their own people, for years. And accomplished nothing but a giant pile of rubble next to a giant pile of corpses. But in their minds, it was some sort of victory. You must be down on your luck if victory=not exterminated.

And its entirely our own fault, for playing into this occupation/nation building crap. Because the political, media, and fiscal pressures only really come into play over a longer time frame. So...by setting ourselves up for a long conflict, as opposed to blowing up whatever we don't like and going home, thus robbing them of that opportunity, how are we doing anything but playing into their hands? The "Iron Fist" is use of force, not diluted with the "soft gloves" of a ten times longer period of occupation where we set ourselves up for political, media, and monetary pressures.

That's what I'm trying to get across. Maybe I'm doing a lousy job of it.

[Spider]

[Spider]

[The Dharma Bum]