ISIS troops 8 miles from Baghdad

[Libertarian602]

[eynon81]

[Libertarian602]

The Turks aren't known for measured approaches to civil unrest, I'm sure needless bloodshed and the maintaining of the status quo would be a predictable outcome.

[eynon81]

[Libertarian602]

Meh, I think this goes well beyond the Islamist and Secularist paradigm taking place in Turkey, there seems to a national attitude that's unapologetic when it comes to the plight of the Kurds. If there's any reform movements in Turkey, it seems to be very low key to nonexistent. But, of course I could be off the mark.

[Saz]

None of you know anything about Turkey.

1. No f**k part of turkey is going to the Kurds. Ever. Zero chance that happens period.

2. Turkey is still the most moderate of these lunatic middle eastern countries by a desert mile. Grouping them with islamismists is absurd.

3. This is the wests fault, particularly europe. They are f**k racist to turks. Turkey made so many overtures in the 90's and 2000's in a bid to try to get in the EU and the EU made clear that there was zero f**k chance 80 million brown muzzies were getting into the EU. So turkey obvious went it own route and here we are today. Can't blame them.

4. You cannot empower the liberals without a serious shot at EU membership period. Turkey becoming european, which in todays standard is a EU member, has always been the raison d'être for turkish liberals. By denying them access to that, they have nothing to offer turkey or the turkish people politically or economically.

[The Comrade]

lack of EU membership is not what emboldened islamists in turkey and led to erdogan.

[Saz]

[The Comrade]

incorrect.

the AKP came to power partially as a protest against the corruption of the secular ruling party, and party because the islamism of the AKP made them immensely popular in the one year they existed prior to the 2003 election. this is clear when erdogan's imprisonment for reading an islamist poem made his popularity soar.

the islamism was always there, under the surface, but the army always kept it in check. then AKP came to power and the army blinked. this allowed erdogan to play the long con by building his popularity further until he was able to gut the military and the courts. and erdogan has remained as pro-EU and pro-american in his public politics as any of the secular party leaders. so, this isn't a case of turkey becoming islamist because of a lack of EU membership and racism(lol) it's a case of the gatekeepers of turkish secularism not couping an unsecular leader when they should have. the islamism that has been rampant in eastern and central turkey for most of its existence finally managed to slip past the army and gain political power.

[Saz]