GOP reaps what it sows

[Philly]

Well then Indy you are part of the same problem that you agonize over so much. You talk about hating plutocracy, but the Dems know all they have to do is be not-as-bad as the GOP and you will vote for any plutocrat they nominate, even if a third party is running someone who stands for what you actually believe in.

[Indy]

What a convenient but obvious little trap you've built there.

Because Bernie's not going to be the candidate and the other choice is a narcissistic fascist, in voting for Hillary now, wouldn't you know it, why, I am a hypocrite for allegedly voting for the plutocracy which I otherwise disavow! OMG!

For the record, Hillary has stated that she is going to break up the TBTF banks. Is she lying? Maybe. But that's what she said.

Obviously there's no reason to doubt Bernie's sincerity. Or Warren's. So our choice here is between a woman who has stated that and the fascist who has said absolutely zero with regard to it and has stated publicly that poor people are dumb or else they wouldn't be poor. While always reminding us that he's a billionaire. Hmmm, tough choice.

You're also trying to make me a single-issue voter.

Look, you want to get mad at somebody about Hillary, stop making it me. I'm voting for Hillary by default, not because I chose her over Bernie, whom I will remind you I voted for on Tuesday. WTF else do you want from me?

[Philly]

I'm not mad at you Indy. But you know Hillary has gotten millions and millions from Wall Street and you understand the corrupting influence of money in politics so I doubt you even think there's a chance she's actually going to break up the banks. Or do anything else to hurt the special interest groups that have funded her. So I'm encouraging you not to limit yourself to a choice between a fascist and a plutocrat. Dr. Stein is neither of those things, and she's running for president as well. Why won't you consider her?

[Indy]

[Philly]

[Indy]

Well that's your choice.

But we have to way the outcomes here. Taking a stand that gets a fascist elected sounds like wrong place, wrong time to do that.

[Philly]

When will be the right time for people like us to stand up to the party and say "no more"? Every election since I was old enough to follow gets characterized as the most important one ever. And every time they'll say the stakes are too high for us not to stand together and defeat [insert opposing candidate].

And now that the Dems don't represent the financial interest of anyone but the donor class, they are up to the same tricks as the GOP:

Republicans will tell their base that if the Dems win all social order will collapse and there will be illegal Muslim immigrants having gay orgies in the streets. Dems say that if the republicans win gay marriage and abortion will immediately be banned. Now of course, ther Dems actually ARE better on social issues, but the point is that both parties are distracting us with fear of the other party's social policy while they work together to prop up their donors at our expense.

[Indy]

Well no kidding.

The problem is the system, and it's a system that will be supported by 50% of the electorate no matter how badly it screws them because they've been taught that anything that undoes the system is "liberalism" and therefore evil.

And as you point out, even the alleged "liberals" are hooked into the same system. The only difference between them and the GOP is that they don't use the Bible to justify authoritarianism disguised as conservatism, they aren't trying to dismantle social programs and yeah that health care thing. Oh, and not wanting to bomb the shit out of everybody in endless protracted wars that achieve absolutely zero.

I knew we were screwed when Obama, right after the 2008 collapse, instead of taking a whip to the assembled Wall St. CEOs he had over, rolled over and completely gave them the green light that his administration was for sale, too.

So what's the solution, bro?

Easy: third party.

When are people going to get sick of the reality that this so-called beacon of democracy has only two choices every election? Do you know, for instance, how many political parties there are in, say, Norway? We are just embarrassing.

Of course, our media is completely part of this whole false choice matrix as well--they need it to be right vs. left, blue vs. red, good vs. evil to perpetuate their WWE narrative.

Third party will be the only thing that brings change--can you imagine the shock waves that would send through both parties if they lost to a third party candidate?

But the media won't allow it: just look at how they treat anybody not in the Big Two--as a "Don Quixote" type tilting at windmills.

[Philly]

If the solution is third party then join me in voting for Jill Stein.

[spacemonkey]

I wonder what they/we would do if election day came and went, and no one voted for anyone for anything? Probably a better chance of a debt free balanced budget before that happened though.