We're so f*cked

[ToddStarnes]

[spacemonkey]

[ToddStarnes]

Philly, you often say we should be listening to trump supporters to try to understand their grievances. Care to take a stab at interpreting what we should be listening to? Is it jimmy talking about ass sniffing or space monkeys odd fixation on finite v. Infinite? What is our takeaway from these little listening sessions supposed to be?

[exploited]

[ToddStarnes]

Great post. But what accounts for the nihilistic component? They may say they want order but they are presently cheering the disintegration of order. They also appear to have a deep desire to see harm to the nation and the world so long as they get to call leftists snowflakes and are fed a sufficient quantity of red meat, such as the eating of President Trump's ass by Prime Minister Merkel. I agree with your post vis-a-vis ideology, but the present movement has no ideology beyond "f**k liberals". Indeed, president trump represents a stark departure from many of the values cited in the first article you mention and also from policies that a mere three years ago would have been nearly universally accepted by those calling themselves conservatives.

[Kane]

Not necessarily, it could simply indicate that conservatism has since been redirected to see domestic policy and domestic actors as the larger threat. Elites. Jobs. Economy. Domestic actors ignoring or complicit in exporting jobs through bad trade deals, elites allowing in bad actors unfettered and without vetting them, etc. That it appeals to ethno nationalism is an expected byproduct. Just look at what Steve King is getting away with right now. It's either dismissed or downplayed because they're left wondering where all this outrage was when their jobs were lost and their country attacked by outsiders? In their mind the bigger threat isn't the enemy, it's the traitor within. Apostates.

[exploited]

[Kane]

What's the end game here? Should we let Trump do what he wants and flush this out now? Or engage in long term drawn out hostilities?

[exploited]

[Kane]

I fear that by opposing him we only make him stronger. I fear that continuing the opposition will further divide the left from right and instigate something worse. I could be wrong, but I fear that the GOP has already put party before country.

And I fear this was Putin's plan all along. Divide and conquer. Means are irrelevant, it's the ends that concern me most here. It's perfectly orchestrated to fit partisan lines, to undermine the objectivity of the judiciary, of the last standing institutions holding the country together.

Ultimately, due more to Trump's character than his alignment, I fear that Trump's presidency itself will have pushed us beyond a point of return.

It's already too late.