I stand against Google bro

[John Galt]

rofl at the name change

[exploited]

Yeah, it is kind of hilarious the lengths that the tech industry and post-secondary schooling have gone to make tech more accessible to women. But, you know, sexism or something like that.

[The Comrade]

[John Galt]

Yeah, but also to explain that even with those complications things are working fine

[Saz]

[Saz]

[Saz]

FWIW I think the industry is structured poorly and values the wrong things - and men perpetuate this system because they see it in themselves. Bluntly, you describe it as a less social field, when in fact it doesn't have to be that way and probably would work better if the process was structured to be more cooperative. Honestly, I don't think it's inherently any less of a social field than law, its just that industry participants have made no effort to change because they are all men who think it must and can only be done X way. The entire way we were taught coding was bizarre, it was seen as some domain of a genius and either you have it or you didn't. In fact, when you got down to writing the programs you could see that there was ample room for further cooperation and collaboration, but this wasn't encouraged at all.

I took a lot of coding classes in HS and one thing I will say is the girls f**k labeled their code. Holy shit guys never did this, just a mess of a f**k code that you can't decipher without massive effort unless you wrote it. The girl I got my programs from did a f**k great job, labeled f**k everything. I wouldn't even compile the shit and I could understand and explain the process. I tried to link up with one bro to basically spit the work on many a project, but this guy just did everything on his own and did it in a way that was not inclusive and could not be understood by one but him. He unnecessarily made himself critical to the process because he couldn't or wouldn't work in a group. I mistakenly assumed he was the brightest guy and therefor the best to work with, but actually ended up working with a group of 2 girls and 1 other dude, and we always finished before him because we could divide our work and would write the code in a clear manner with notes, so other members of the group could follow. We always finished before smart bro and I personally thought our code was better if only because a human could read it. Guess who the teacher loved though?

I think you need to break out of this confined idea of what the industry is, or how it works, or what it takes to be successful. I'll say I do think there are differences, IN THE AGGREGATE, between men and women - but I don't think those differences imply one is better than the other. I think women generally are more cooperative then men, but it seems as if you have structured the industry only to appeal to certain male traits, while downplaying ones that women may excel at or prefer. There is a reason diverse groups do better and that is because standard assumptions are often challenged by people with different viewpoints, leading to a new and better process. Perhaps if we stepped away from this idea that coding is some thing you either have or you dont, or its some individual thing suited to loners and not groups, more women would be interested in and excel in the field.

[John Galt]

f**k pair programming. I ain't doing that shit in a group. Peer review is different story. So is splitting tasks. We do this all the time. It's only when we break down to tasks that take less than a week an I wary about splitting them between people.

Women often are more ordered. They know where things are. In many respects women have strengths in software but where they lose is that they often become emotionally vested in their work and take professional criticism of what they have produced as personal criticism. This causes a chilling effect because no one wants to see a crying woman, and people stop doing things that improve everyone, like honest feedback.

[exploited]

[Saz]