russia interference, trump, collusion, etc

[Saz]

[Saz]

[John Galt]

[Kane]

[Saz]

That's an absolutely retarded position and one not supported by any of the documentation or any other treaty. Russia was the successor to the USSR, to say we made the USSR a commitment but that doesn't extend to Russia is f**k absurd and its obvious why the Russians would be pissed about that. The US ambassador at the time even stated that assurances were given to gorbachev that NATO would not expand east.

Even if you want to debate what assurance were made, there was NO DOUBT among the US diplomatic community about what the russians heard and how they would perceive any eastward expansion. Bush warned against it, Kennan warned against it, everyone knew it was a dumb risky move because it would severely antagonise the russians. We did it, because in 1994 russia was to weak to do anything about it, but we cant be surprised or call foul that they are now pissed and pushing back when the country is back on its feet.

We do reap what we sow.

[Saz]

[John Galt]

well obviously they wouldn't like it: the purpose of NATO is to curtail muscovite aggression and expansionism

[Saz]

[Spider]

No. There is no equivalency. Sovereign countries chose to join NATO of their own volition. They had every legitimate right to do so. This is not something being "done" to Russia. Russia then decided to invade someone else's country, carve a big chunk off of it, and then incite, aid, and arm insurrection in said country up to and including shooting down a civilian airliner, the f**k cowards.

They are not even a shadow the USSR, but we are still forced to tolerate their shit because they are f**k nuts and have a big red button.

It's wrongheaded to say that the expansion of NATO was "really screwing the Russians." Obviously, that's the way they see it...but they are wrong, too. The big mistake was in setting them up to be an energy exporter the Europeans foolishly came to rely on. All the "screwing" the West dealt them by trying to economically integrate them into the world economy has proven to be massively foolish.

I'll probably not bother responding to whatever ad hom laced response I get to this.

[Spider]