Pennsylvania Sex Abuse - Next Steps

[JDHURF]

[Spider]

(Third try.) The Catholic church isn't from PA. This problem is global, and is the responsibility of those who actually run the thing. Maybe they can find a few American higher-ups within the PA church to toss onto swords, but the fact is the Vatican needs to nut up and do something real.

[JDHURF]

[Circe]

[John Galt]

Here’s the deal hurf

You started off this entire thing by coming into the thread and declaring this had something to do with “pilgrims” and “puritans”. You wanted to connect this horror to the American expericnce as a whole. Basically, instead of trashing the catholic church, you took it as yet another reason to trash America

And you’re wrong.

When I pointed it out you went completely off the rails and started talking about trump and KKK rallies in 1927. Nobody thinks you’re smart and you’re pulling in a bunch of threads of different colors together to make a brilliant pattern. These things are not related and your threads together just look like shit.

The catholic church has a clerical problem, and the catholic church is a massive international entity. In truth, it was uncovered in America earlier than other countries but I think that’s because of a lack of deference to the catholic church not because of excessive deference, as compared to other countries. The United States initially did indeed have lunatic puritans and pilgrims come over, but they hated catholics, and that hatred has carried through to this day. JFK was called by some as a pontifical puppet. Indeed, the only place where there actually is a large number of catholics in government is the supreme court (and probably Massachusetts). The US is predominantly protestant, and protestants have a lot of shit to say about catholics. I tell protestants I was raised catholic and they just go off until I tell them I’m an atheist so shuttup at which point they do.

The point is hurf, it wasn’t anything unique amount America that facilitated this tragedy. If anything, I would say it would be less probable for it to happen here than other places. This is because unlike many other countries, even in Europe, the church isn’t entrenched in government. Still, it did happen here. Just like it has happened the world over. Only now are some allegations coming to light. Yes, America does have the highest known amount of cases, but America and Ireland are the only two countries so far that have had nationwide investigations into this. Ireland, to be sure, is a very Catholic country, but the US isn't. This thing is jsut starting to blow up in Chile; this is a worldwide problem because this is a CATHOLIC problem, not an American one.

The United States and other governments should use this as a time to demand information from the church. But the church should get in front of it. They need another ecumenical council on clerical culture. Not only would priest marriage be on the table, but so would outside secular oversight. It is very clear that the cloistered life has allowed not simply sins but crimes to go because of a massive cultural problem.

These people claim they are called into service of god. They claim to follow in the footsteps of jesus. Each one of them should be strong enough to stand up for a child.

[JDHURF]

Galt, if you can manage to restrain yourself from fabricating straw-men fallacies and stop kneeling before the United States, you will find that we agree on the issue of the Catholic church and its institutionalization of child sexual abuse.

You're claim that my first post "instead of trashing the catholic church" was trashing America is wildly false. The very first sentence of my first post in this thread was the observation that these PA revelations are another "horrific revelation that a large segment of the Catholic Church functions as a criminal organization." I linked to a DemocracyNow! segment with a sexual abuse survivor and a former Catholic priest discussing the crimes at length. I ended by posting Hitchens' opening arguments in the IQ2 debate about the Catholic Church which is as extensive and damning a critique of the Catholic Church as can be found in a comprehensive 20 minute excursion.

It's incredibly peculiar that your state worship is so severe that you become immediately willfully blind to the overwhelming majority of my post in order to have an absolute conniption about my brief mention of the deference to theocratic impulses in the United States, present since before independence. No doubt it was a tenuous tangent, but let's keep it real, it was a brief comment in passing and, fundamentally, an accurate one.

When I mentioned Trump and the klan in passing it wasn't in response to your present assertion that "instead of trashing the catholic church" I trashed America, which, as I've already observed, is wildly false. I was responding to your claim that the pilgrims and puritans ("those people" as you referred to them) "hated" catholics (your emphasis). You ironically enough then defended the Catholic church you now want to castigate me for not trashing. You asserted that the historical residues I mentioned "are found in pentacostals and baptists, not in catholics."

My brief mention of the klan and of Trump was in relation to my response to your wildly false claim. I correctly stated that the nativists were later iterations of colonial lunacy which did, in fact, hate Catholics and that much of Trump's program is that of the nativist program.

The sex abuses largely began to be uncovered in the 80s and it was not unique to the United States. The media began to report significantly on the issue in the 90s and this too was not unique to the United States, this involved Canada, the United States, Australia, and Ireland. It's also had extensive coverage in Austria, Belgium, India, Norway, Poland, etc. You would know more about this if you expanded your information horizons or, at minimal, reviewed the Hitchens clip I've posted twice and cited several times more. Your perception that the United States is some unique moral force on the issue is a consequence of your living in the United States and consuming its media.

As to the fundamental problem of Catholic priests' sexual abuse of children, we both agree that it is a catastrophic institutional crisis of the Catholic church. We also agree that it isn't unique to the United States as the Catholic church is a global church that functions on every continent.

The church should absolutely change its structure, it's millenniums past due that it rescind it's inhuman policy of celibacy for priests and nuns and its exclusion of women from the priesthood and higher roles in the hierarchy. Secular oversight is a fantastic idea, but, as I've said, one ought not hold one's breath for anything significant. Something else that would help tremendously and have as much a probability to occur as any of the preceding, keeping to your favored state, the IRS should start taxing these religious business rackets.

[exploited]

[Circe]

this is like gay men fighting without the ass f**k...exploited showed up to bring the buggery

[spacemonkey]

[Spider]