russia interference, trump, collusion, etc

[Kane]

[John Galt]

justice is not served by putting most non-violent offenders in prison, only vengeance. justice is about restoring balance, and there's much better ways to do that other than prison. prison should be for people who are too dangerous to be allowed out into society

[JockandBallTorture]

[John Galt]

[Spider]

It's not extraordinary at all. Have you seen the rest of his feed? The overall point he's making is about the disparity. Which is what I'm actually trying to get across. People get the book thrown at them routinely over comparatively nothing at all. Manafort can straight up betray his country and engage in obstruction while in the process of being investigated, tried, and charged...and float away not only with a more lenient sentence than someone lower on the ladder...but FAR more lenient than guidelines call for.

Honestly, I don't understand how people can defend this shit. If it was you or me, Galt, there'd be people leaving bootprints in the Martian regolith before we got out.

[John Galt]

It wasn't my words it was the guy you are quoting


SHAPIRO: Are you objecting to the lenient sentence that Paul Manafort got or the severe sentence that your clients got?

HECHINGER: The latter. I'm not outraged at the four years that Manafort got. In fact, I think four years is a lot of time for anyone.

....
SHAPIRO: To some extent, we're talking about apples and oranges. Most of the cases that you handle are in state court. Paul Manafort was prosecuted in federal court. How big a difference does that make?

HECHINGER: I think four years in - I'll just say four years in prison, whether you're serving in federal or in state, is an extraordinary amount of time.


https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/70167155 ... -sentences

[John Galt]

How can I defend it?

I don't think it's just that people get thrown in jail for lots of bullshit. That doesn't mean that I think to be equitable everyone else should get thrown in jail till they die. Manafort broke the law. He needs to pay restitution, and he should be fined. Triple what restitution is should be punishment enough. This is for hiding assests and shit, he hasnt been sentenced for witness tampering yet

[Kane]

Dude psholtz probably served more time than this.

https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-au ... gence.html

Just look at the possible penalty for income tax fraud. I disagree with you on this - these people can con victims out of their money and affect generations to come due to lost wealth and get probation after they sell off assets/attempt repatriation and then file for bankruptcy. f**k that shit. That's why we have Enron, Madoff, banks loaning terrorists money, banks laundering drug money, etc. Because of regulatory capture of a given industry and the fines that don't come close to being commensurate with the crime.

Yes yes, different crimes/focus but the point stands. We're fine sending murderers to prison for life but when it comes to people that took other people's money and can't pay it back they get to go to a level 1 prison to serve a short term or just do community service. And if they're lucky they can get back into the game after the SEC decides enough time has passed. Because it's money and nobody acted in a violent manner?

You can't make this shit up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein

Really don't agree here. If you have money you can get away with almost anything.

[Kane]

[exploited]

Deterrence does not work in the way you are proposing. Certainty of getting caught provides a deterrence effect, the level of punishment does not.

If you want to have a meaningful impact on behaviour, what you do is give the government the funding and resources necessary to properly investigate and prosecute these crimes. When it becomes understood that you are more likely to get caught than get away with any profit, you will see this behaviour lessen. Simply throwing people in jail for a long time doesn't work to deter anyone - there is too much money to be made, especially if you aren't dumb about it, as Manafort was.

If anything, we should be putting these people to work, earning money, which we seize and distribute to their victims. Once the financial cost has been compensated for, in entirety, they can resume their lives. Any and all assets should be on the table here - whatever isn't strictly necessary is seized and sold, to pay off the debt.

It is astounding to me how people will talk for years about prison culture, how highly incarcerated American society is, how damaging prison is to prisoners and guards and society at large - and then once somebody they don't like shows up, those talking points are out the window. The truth is that there are very few crimes that deserve imprisonment, and they are all explicitly violent.