The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump for High Crimes

[Spider]

Somehow, this actually went even worse than I would have thought. Impeachment is just one more fatally flawed constitutional process the framers of which couldn't even imagine the flatly idiotic partisan dysfunction. A complete joke.

[John Galt]

[Kane]

He's just kidding around John.

Nothing to see here.

[exploited]

[John Galt]

it is not a completely joke. it is however apparent that the flaws are too deep and we need significant restructuring.

in terms of impeachment, it should be clear that as presiding judge, the chief justice, is in charge of the trial, while the senators serve as a jury, which cannot overrule the judge except on the matter of guilt and innocence.

it should also be clear that the executive branch may not interfere in the legislative branch's duty to investigate, and any interference is itself impeachable.

before this trial, I didn't think anyone needed to make clear that witnesses and evidence deemed relevant to the case, as determined by the presiding judge, are presented at trial. it's what makes them a trial. even show trials in communist countries had witnesses and evidence, its just forced confessions and made up evidence. but apparently we need to make this clear. before this trial i didn't even think the impeachment power needed any bit of reform. and i still don't think it really does, it just needs to make clear what a "Trial" is for some people

what is in need of reform is the rules (and precedent, not even formal rules) of the senate that allow this to happen. to be called the world's greatest deliberative body and then fail to deliberate on much of anything because the senate majority leader controls debate is abhorrent. even just forcing equal time per month while the senate is in session for the majority and minority leader to have control of the debate would go exceedingly far. in addition, we could go for a quasi population allocation, where every state gets 1 + any additional for each percent of the population as explained in here https://faculty.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-co ... final_.pdf , but i still think the major problem is how the senate majority leader controls debate and that's not even in their written rules, it's in precedent

[Kane]

[Kane]

Audio of the Trump convo with errybody else about the US ambassador to Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... tch-video/

It's just Trump telling them to get her out. I don't get the sense that "take her out" was meant in any other way than Trump's poor grasp of the English language.

[John Galt]

Having listened to it I agree

The existence of the thing is disturbing though. He secretly taped the president for an hour and a half, and Trump says he doesn't even know the guy

Today I listened also to Trump's lawyers make a great case for why witnesses and evidence are needed ("we weren't allowed to cross examine witnesses", "we haven't heard from direct contact witnesses", "we have lots of evidence of the president's innocence but we won't bore you with that", paraphrased but honestly not much), as well as Mike pompeo claim that Mary Louise Kelly thinks that Bangladesh is Ukraine. It's not even a believable lie holy shit how petty is that f**k

[John Galt]

John Bolton, the manifestation of Lawful Evil on earth, has a book draft with damning first hand evidence

I'm sure mitt f**k Romney will find it "troubling" and will consider having testimony

For f**k sake this ends one of two ways. The president is removed, or the republic is dead and we have (understandable) violence

[Spider]

Oh...there won't be any meaningful violence. Probably some insipid weeping and carrying on. People standing around holding signs, impotently begging for cameras to be pointed at them.

How many people actually thought he'd be removed? Dipshits on twitter, maybe? For my part, I'm still annoyed they were stupid enough to go through the song and dance when the stated goal has always been an impossibility due to the lack of a 2/3 Senate majority. This does nothing but benefit trump. He gets to declare himself vindicated whilst providing a clammy, diminutive, wrinkly teabagging to an idiotically suicidal Democratic Party.

I don't believe there is any testimony, any evidence, anything at all short of a secret ballot that could deliver that 2/3 vote.