The Swarm vs. The Gorilla

[exploited]

[The Dharma Bum]

[The Dharma Bum]

[JDHURF]

[The Dharma Bum]

And really a lot of the arrangement depends on the tastes of the community So I agree with Chomsky about that bit as well. It makes more sense to follow some general principles and leave the specifics to the end users.

[Dennis]

I think a lot of it depends on capability and comfort-level. Humans have been used to centralization for a long time now and jumping full-on right into decentralization would be too much of a shock to the system. New Orleans and Haiti are a case-in-point, when society recently collapsed there and all-out decentralization took place. Everything went to hell (rapes, pillaging, killing, etc). Baby-steps are important. Evolution is the key.

Regarding capability, that could be along the lines of technology, as one method, and energy is one example. Instead of everyone being hooked to a centralized grid that can be attacked/exploited/manipulated, why not have every individual house/complex/business generate it's own energy? This is where solar/wind/bio needs to be better developed. If we had that, good luck attacking/exploiting/manipulating this on any kind of a scale. The possibility of such an attack becomes outright removed. This is actually one of the most beautiful possibilities of security and liberty co-existing simultaniously and strengthening each other, something which many people have believed is not possible, including some of our Founding Fathers.

As for legislation, the direct voting example provided earlier might be a good start, but that comes with some risks. As much as it sucks to have a republic form of control over huge swaths of people who are not able to directly choose the legislation that governs their lives, the one benefit of this is the masses can't directly abuse the minority or affect the rest of population on an emotional whim without having to go through filters. Democracies have failed in the past for a reason. Power corrupts, as we all know, whether we all have it or whether a select few have it. The answer is to remove it entirely. Like I said above though, evolution must come into play on this, or you end up with chaos. It has to become a mindset in the vast majority of people, and the vast majority of people just aren't there yet, nor will they probably be in our lifetime. The only thing that can be done about this is to make it happen one individual at a time.

[exploited]

Good points Denis.

That is why I think some aspects of the Gorilla System should be sustained. For instance, a Bill of Rights. This should be limited to strictly civil liberties; the right to a speedy trial, the right to freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right to freedom of speech, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, the right for all citizens to access services regardless of personal circumstances, etc. These should be built into the system, and be centralized. Beyond that, I think that the power to make certain decisions should be removed from the national level, and decentralized. The end result will be, in the words of foadi, a thousand city-states. This will allow people to develop a political, economic and judicial system that suits the local culture, while also protecting minorities from persecution.

[The Dharma Bum]

Interesting points.

I agree that the goal is to remove the ability for individuals to accumulate and wield political power. Most of my musings are actually ideas about how to do just that. And yes, it is going to be a long process to get to a place where every individual is empowered to the degree needed to reach their full potential as an actualized and self-directing being.

We've barely reached the point where there is any idea at all that society shouldn't actively inhibit this type of empowerment for everyone except those who will rule society. lol

I would make the argument that humanity has had an an existence so far that has been relatively free of central control for large segments of history. The Roman empire was a great centralized authority but since it's demise there has been a period of feudalism followed by the period in which capitalism developed. We are just now reaching the point where there is an effort to create a centralized authority for the US (and of course the world eventually.)

Basically I'm saying I think humanity is sufficiently flexible to weather any type of social development that occurs. But as a caveat I would like to add that I think these types of developments only occur when the social conditions make the alternative viable and the status quo non viable.

I think the best way to proceed is to go beyond the individual and create small communities that are viable. When something better comes along the culture at large will adopt it and the way for cultural innovation to spread is virally, like an internet meme. Think about how the development of making fire must have spread through the culture. No one had to force the use of fire on people, they saw it was better and adopted it.

(I wonder if there was a conservative element then who were opposed to the innovation of using fire, after all it's clearly the work of the devil!)

[The Dharma Bum]

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