The Pope Resigns. The Fall of Rome.

[eynon81]

if we're gonna get into this lets back up (a problem I have with these topics is they fast spin out of control and we end up talking about how much a Roman soldier made a month and eating people).

I. Let's clarify my position first...as I stated I respect the agnostic position more than I respect the atheist position...that is not to say I don't respect some atheist...Nico is an Alpha Dog, Exploited has achieved more than life than I have and at a younger age, and PoS has a nice avatar. Funny how so often in life our positions have so little to do with who we actually are.

II. Now, do you want me to defend my position in re agnostics v atheists or do you want to broaden the conversation into a general defense of the possibility of the divine.

III. Working definitions...atheist: I don't believe in the divine; agnostic: I don't know, maybe; deist: I believe in some kind of divine; theist: I believe in the divine and I believe that divine interacts with the material universe.

IV. I noticed that Exploited and Nico's last posts had shifted from the existence of evidence of the divine to attacking the validity of that evidence...2 separate issues. So have I established, even if it credibility is highly questionable, that there is some evidence of the divine?

[exploited]

I havent achieved more than you dude, my business is a family business, all I did was win the genetic lottery. So you're wrong about that.

But in regards to evidence, what I've tried to show is that people's testimony that they had a religious experience or felt the presence of God can be explained more reasonably using modern science, and our understanding of both mental disorders and the evolutionary purpose of religion (hint: religion helped us form communities). In other words, their testimony shouldn't be admitted to this court. It is evidence, sure, just not credible evidence.

Given this, my position is you should respect atheists more. Like theists, they have at least had the courage to make a choice. Agnostics hide behind uncertainty so as to hedge their bets.

[HeatherG]

[Homer]

[Breakage]

[Breakage]

[exploited]

[Breakage]

[exploited]

Are you similarly unwilling to say that purple monkey gods don't exist? How about flying aircraft made out of spaghetti, manufactured by aliens 4000 years ago?

Because I have some pretty compelling evidence: I saw them.

[Breakage]

I'm also Agnostic about the existence of multiple universes, it's been theorized and as yet I see no evidence that sways me in it's favour, but I don't think that means it definitely is not true. Same could be said about alien life .. any number of things in fact. Atheists who claim God does not exist are essentially as retarded as someone who claims multiple universes do not exist, as yet we don't know, we may never be able to know, but neither have been dis-proven, only not yet proven, it's a subtle but important difference