The Precariat – The new dangerous class

[The Dharma Bum]

Then you just don't like freedom. PareEcon is a system that enables individuals to be free yet live in a viable modern society, something that doesn't happen currently. Every feature of ParEcon that you have disparaged is specifically designed to provide individual freedom and meet the needs of society.

The reason you can't find that video is because it doesn't exist. Chomsky never said that, the fact is he is a vocal critic of US capitalism and is a socialist who has no interest in pretending there is a decent version of this shitty system but we just aren't doing it right. You seem to think capitalism is a mirage that can't ever be realized. It has been realized, it sucks for the majority of people, you live in it and don't like it but have been conditioned to accept it.

I know, because it happened to me too. I was pissed when I finally figured it out, but then realized getting mad doesn't help. Educating yourself to take direct action that is effective is the only solution for a person of conscious which I know you happen to be. That's what I'm going to spend my remaining allotment of time doing.

I used to hate Chomsky with a passion. But you know what? That kind of passion is only for people who know the other guy is right and they are wrong.

The fact is, he's correct about many of the things he says.

[The Dharma Bum]

BTW I find ParEcon is not a perfect solution. It has some features I consider mildly repressive. Personally there are aspects of it that I would change to make society even freer. But it represents the direction we need to be going and is the most fleshed out and viable alternative and is far superior to our current system in which most of the population is totally disenfranchised, knows it, and doesn't care one whit about participating in our political system. Basically it's a waste of time for them.

In ParEcon everyone effected takes part in the discussion, unless they are just unable to for some reason. In capitalism only the guys that own everything decide what we will do.

[lnrw]

[The Dharma Bum]

There is no video at that link. Don't get me wrong, I believe there was a video. I'm not saying that you are lying or anything like that. I'm sure someone probably excerpted something he said and maybe misrepresented it or something. If you notice there are a lot of chomsky videos out there. He isn't exactly going around and shutting them all down. So maybe he had it removed for a reason.

All I know is from what I've read he doesn't seem to me to be a supporter of capitalism. I don't see him putting much faith in an idealized vision of capitalist society. The closest to something in support of capitalism would probably be when he said state capitalism should be co-opted and directed more to maintaining a healthy society rather than producing record profits that only benefit a tiny segment of society.

Or maybe something he says sometimes about how our version or modern capitalism doesn't really follow the precepts of classical economic theory. That's true, but not really relevant.

[lnrw]

Obviously there is no video, that was the point. I wish there were. A number of people here have seen it. I've referenced it a number of times, it's bookmarked.

I did not say he was a supporter of capitalism. I would not so much as imply that he was. it is the fundamental reason he and I disagree. That should be crystal clear.

The video was an interview at a book signing it seemed. He was asked about capitalism and he spoke uninterrrupted and said, not verbatim; that the US has never had anything resembling true capitalism. That the economy is controlled by an elite and powerful group and if true capitalism existed they would be destroyed over night. Something very close to that effect.

And on that subject, Mr. Chomsky and I are in complete agreement.

Coming from such a staunch collectivist and recognised author is a powerful statement. That is why I was using it when it was online.
It was not edited or excerpted, except in the statement's contiguous form, from the larger interview. Copyright has been applied for. What can I say?

In any case, I think I won't while away the day fussing about any control factors of any kind. Even a suggestion that I outta do this or that, will be met with the ugliest and most American of middle fingers. The message will be clear.

I'm going to go outside and practise, practise mind you, full blown anarchy and say piss on the world for at least the rest of the day if the sun continues as is. Right here in my own back yard.

Cheers.

[lnrw]

[The Dharma Bum]

The US is as capitalist as it gets, its far to the right of everything else. The problem is that "true capitalism" blows. Its not economic freedom for every individual at all. Its economic freedom only for the dudes that own everything. Free do to do whatever they like to those that don't have the funds to fight them.

[lnrw]

What happened to there is no such video? And I don't beleive in freedom? Wrong on both counts.

Your usage of this type of language loads the discussion, as I've said before.

In the end, you're not even talking about capitalism. You're talking about what the government does. and they might do anything at all. And none of it would have even a hint of capitalism about it, near it or in any way associated with it.

I do not support what the government does. Then you conflate that with me supporting what you like to call capitalism. which is tantamount to fear and superstition, because it does not exist.

Your entire argument proceeds from a false premise.

[The Dharma Bum]

he clearly states the US system is state capitalism.

[The Dharma Bum]

Anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with the subject of the thread, which is the formation and growth of the precariat class because of the inadequate social response to crisis in our system. You can call the system that creates the situation whatever you want, if helps call it something else besides capitalism, but if you refuse to use commonly understood definitions etc it is difficult to correctly analyze the situation.